Lich King Burn Out

[laileb]

I have noticed a massive plummet in interest in our raids, we have gone from doing 25 mans to not doing anything. This has caused tensions in the guild and we need to remedy this. To figure out how to fix it we need to determine the root causes. I have come up with a few.

1. Ulduar is not an easy raid and not every person will perform well in here due to the demands it puts on positioning and timing.

2. Raid schedule. Right now we raid twice as much as a full blown raiding guild with none of the success.

3. We have no diversity in our guild as far as classes go. We have priests, death knights, hunters, and of course paladins. Not only are we missing out on many raid buffs, ( I counted 11 missing buffs last I checked) but we are also all fighting over the same gear and token drops.

4. The laid back fun attitude that was the trademark of SWP in Burning Crusade and attracted myself and a few others to the guild has eroded in Wrath, we frequently have arguments amongst each other, people get their feelings hurt over a variety of things, and although this isn't a raiding guild that has become the primary focus for many people.

My solutions to these problems come in a variety of forms and suggestions.

1. Back in BC Raiding was a BI-Weekly affair, If we focus solely on Ulduar like we have been it needs to return to this. What sets us apart from raiding guilds is our rules and attitudes towards raiding. A raiding guild has a loot plan, a progression plan, and set nights for progression. We go to have fun and get gear in the process with no regard for who gets what. Or at least thats what we say. What we tell our fellow guild mates of our expectations and what we truly expect are two different things and this needs to change. If we indeed are going to focus on raiding then we need to clearly state what our expectations are and then clearly state our plan to progress. If this is a casual guild then we need to stick with casual raids which will probably not include any new content as it is getting progressively more technical.

2.Instead of raids every night we need to schedule time for heroic runs. There is a large interest in alts in the guild everyone seems to have 2 or 3. If we have a progression raid scheduled 7 nights a week people will get burnt out on their toons and not want to play. I see this happening with several people. Lets let people relax and run what they want to run. Letting people work up alts is also a good way to solve our diversity problem. Level up what you want but if your doing it to help our raids/groups, talk to the raid leaders so we can balance things out and take care of some of the lack of diversity.

3. We need guild PvP. Back in BC there were a number of us on arena teams, and even now theres a number of us who do pvp be in wintergrasp, or BG's. PvP is an excellent way to build our teamwork, meet new people, and it doesn't demand the large block of time that raiding does.

4. I would like to see group achievement grinding. There is a large number of us grinding achievements solo. we could be doing this as a group which would build stronger bonds between our members.

5. I would like to see set raid groups. not two groups of alts but two separate groups. And we need to plan our gear out, what upgrades we need, and where they come from. Without a plan we cannot fulfill our expectations in a timely manner. Quite possibly not even know what we expect. If we are a bit more structured we wont need to raid 7 days a week.

6. With the upcoming patch there will be a great incentive to farm heroics. This will be the fastest way to get decent gear in 3.2 along with naxx badge runs, which should take no longer than 3-4 hours for a full clear. I suggest setting up groups for this as well. there are several people with tanks and healers. Talk to each other and pair up with someone. Another incentive for badges is that you can also buy PvP gear with them.

Well thats a large post and i'll cut it short and see what kind of responses I get. I look forward to working with all of you to make SWP the great guild it can be.

[taallonn]

Jun 26, 2009 1:41:05 GMT -5 laileb said:

I have noticed a massive plummet in interest in our raids, we have gone from doing 25 mans to not doing anything. This has caused tensions in the guild and we need to remedy this. To figure out how to fix it we need to determine the root causes. I have come up with a few.

1. Ulduar is not an easy raid and not every person will perform well in here due to the demands it puts on positioning and timing.
I agree with this

2. Raid schedule. Right now we raid twice as much as a full blown raiding guild with none of the success.
I would like to see this change somewhat as you have pointed out, there isn't much interest or so it seems

3. We have no diversity in our guild as far as classes go. We have priests, death knights, hunters, and of course paladins. Not only are we missing out on many raid buffs, ( I counted 11 missing buffs last I checked) but we are also all fighting over the same gear and token drops.
Blizzard said bring the player, not the class. Blizzard continues to prove they are full of shit. With the different nerf's they have done to classes, most feel they need to play something that will have some utility and offer what they can to the raid. Pure dps classes are not as desirable to people because they can heal, tank and dps all with one....imo

4. The laid back fun attitude that was the trademark of SWP in Burning Crusade and attracted myself and a few others to the guild has eroded in Wrath, we frequently have arguments amongst each other, people get their feelings hurt over a variety of things, and although this isn't a raiding guild that has become the primary focus for many people.
I blame boredom and repetition. Dailies, boring...Heroics, beyond boring and into the realm of "drooling zombified motions that do nothing but make you wish you were in bed dreaming you were doing something other than the same thing you have done every day for 4 years"

My solutions to these problems come in a variety of forms and suggestions.

1. Back in BC Raiding was a BI-Weekly affair, If we focus solely on Ulduar like we have been it needs to return to this. What sets us apart from raiding guilds is our rules and attitudes towards raiding. A raiding guild has a loot plan, a progression plan, and set nights for progression. We go to have fun and get gear in the process with no regard for who gets what. Or at least thats what we say. What we tell our fellow guild mates of our expectations and what we truly expect are two different things and this needs to change. If we indeed are going to focus on raiding then we need to clearly state what our expectations are and then clearly state our plan to progress. If this is a casual guild then we need to stick with casual raids which will probably not include any new content as it is getting progressively more technical.
Can't and won't argue these points, i agree

2.Instead of raids every night we need to schedule time for heroic runs. There is a large interest in alts in the guild everyone seems to have 2 or 3. If we have a progression raid scheduled 7 nights a week people will get burnt out on their toons and not want to play. I see this happening with several people. Lets let people relax and run what they want to run. Letting people work up alts is also a good way to solve our diversity problem. Level up what you want but if your doing it to help our raids/groups, talk to the raid leaders so we can balance things out and take care of some of the lack of diversity.
I would like to see vault on tuesday or wed night. Not just 10 man, but us hosting a 25 man as well. Tier 8 folks and it's easy as shit, even if you don't need it, others do and want it. Heroic nights i see happening after the patch as the badges will be useless that we get now, some still need em and if it's for their benefit then that's cool. Naxx 1 or 2 nights a week, and Uludar 1 or 2 nights a week and by my count thats 5 nights raiding, 1 niight heroics....thats a bloody hell of a casual raid schedule

3. We need guild PvP. Back in BC there were a number of us on arena teams, and even now theres a number of us who do pvp be in wintergrasp, or BG's. PvP is an excellent way to build our teamwork, meet new people, and it doesn't demand the large block of time that raiding does.
My thoughts on pvp are...well...quite one sided. PvP is fun for me due to the fact that i love putting myself through hell and I love to bitch. However for most everyone else I can see why they would not want to do it......
Pvp is the most broken thing in this game. The first best way to balance it is to take every single melee class; warriors, DK's, Paladin's, Rogues, enhance shaman and feral druids and nerf the living piss out of their damage by 1/3. Reduce pvp crit to 1/2 of whats on your character sheet for all classes and maybe, just maybe it will be close to being a viable portion of the game that can actually judge someones skill by, until then it's a broken piece of shit with no redeeming value other than killing time and hoping you learn something about the class you play

I am for pvp guild days or nights though


4. I would like to see group achievement grinding. There is a large number of us grinding achievements solo. we could be doing this as a group which would build stronger bonds between our members.
I'm game

5. I would like to see set raid groups. not two groups of alts but two separate groups. And we need to plan our gear out, what upgrades we need, and where they come from. Without a plan we cannot fulfill our expectations in a timely manner. Quite possibly not even know what we expect. If we are a bit more structured we wont need to raid 7 days a week.
With work schedules and whatnot, it may not be possible. i would like to see more people going to runs though

6. With the upcoming patch there will be a great incentive to farm heroics. This will be the fastest way to get decent gear in 3.2 along with naxx badge runs, which should take no longer than 3-4 hours for a full clear. I suggest setting up groups for this as well. there are several people with tanks and healers. Talk to each other and pair up with someone. Another incentive for badges is that you can also buy PvP gear with them.
First time I get a tell as soon as I log in about tanking or healing a fucking heroic, Im throwing that person on ignore and logging out

After i have had time to check my mail, check the calendar, check WG time and think about what i would like to do that day i would be more than happy to entertain the idea of helping someone in a heroic


Well thats a large post and i'll cut it short and see what kind of responses I get. I look forward to working with all of you to make SWP the great guild it can be.

Wasn't trying to hack apart your post or anything, just thought it would be easier to address each point as they are, hehe. I can agree with most of what your saying and i think we need to make some changes to the way we do certain things. By the same token it may not be burnout, and may just be the start of summer or changed work schedules or whatever. We are a casual guild still and hinestly, nobody should feel obligated to go on a raid unless they signed up for it.

[xyon]

That is basicly why I haven't been in WoW that much for the last 2 months or so. I got burned out on dailies and on Raids. Since I only have 2 nights a week where I do not work I got tired of doing only raidings on those 2 days. If I am not at work I don't want to spend all my time in WoW. I want to take the time to go out and enjoy something close to a social life. Now if I had more available nights it would be different but for the moment I don't.

Work sucks, Especialy night shift.

[taallonn]

Jun 28, 2009 15:05:37 GMT -5 xyon said:

That is basicly why I haven't been in WoW that much for the last 2 months or so. I got burned out on dailies and on Raids. Since I only have 2 nights a week where I do not work I got tired of doing only raidings on those 2 days. If I am not at work I don't want to spend all my time in WoW. I want to take the time to go out and enjoy something close to a social life. Now if I had more available nights it would be different but for the moment I don't.

Work sucks, Especialy night shift.

So would you want to maybe do heroics, or rep grinds on your days off when you played? I'm asking because the more feedback we get on what people want to do the more stuff we can setup other than raids.

[taallonn]

Been giving more thought to a schedule we can get and stick to that may be more benificial.

Tuesday: Vault 10, and 25
Wednesday: Uludar first 4-5 bosses
Thursday: Heoics, rep runs, pvp depending on interest
Friday: Uludar next 3 bosses leading to progression
Saturday: Naxx 10 or 25, or Uludar progression if and only if it's the proper group make up
Sunday: Naxx, OS, Malaygos or Uludar alt run (or recent 80's that are geared for early fights)
Moday: heroics, rep runs, pvp depending on interest

---------------------------------------------
This is a patch raid schedule. Which means the only real reason to do Naxx and heroics is for badges, and gear up under geared people for Uludar. Vault has tier 8, and soon a 3rd Boss. If we host the 25 man theres a good chance someone in guild will see upgrades. The true "off days" are Monday and Thursday, the naxx could be considered an off day as really it's just a badge run the way Kara used to be. So really theres just 3 "raid" days as Uludar is really the only progression raid we are focusing on.

Once the patch hits somepeople are going to be chomping at the bit to get to the next raid. Personally i wouldn't do it as a guild, i would wait until we had downed the last boss in Uludar a few times before we tried to jump ahead into content that though some of us are ready for, most won't be. just my thoughts....INPUT WANTED

[xyon]

Jun 28, 2009 17:12:20 GMT -5 taallonn said:

Jun 28, 2009 15:05:37 GMT -5 xyon said:

That is basicly why I haven't been in WoW that much for the last 2 months or so. I got burned out on dailies and on Raids. Since I only have 2 nights a week where I do not work I got tired of doing only raidings on those 2 days. If I am not at work I don't want to spend all my time in WoW. I want to take the time to go out and enjoy something close to a social life. Now if I had more available nights it would be different but for the moment I don't.

Work sucks, Especialy night shift.

So would you want to maybe do heroics, or rep grinds on your days off when you played? I'm asking because the more feedback we get on what people want to do the more stuff we can setup other than raids.

Right now when I do play on those days it's during the day since I try to keep the evenings for other things. So if there's anything going on during the day I'm in. Especialy with the badge changes coming in

[jenner]

Jun 27, 2009 19:03:53 GMT -5 taallonn said:

Jun 26, 2009 1:41:05 GMT -5 laileb said:

I have noticed a massive plummet in interest in our raids, we have gone from doing 25 mans to not doing anything. This has caused tensions in the guild and we need to remedy this. To figure out how to fix it we need to determine the root causes. I have come up with a few.

1. Ulduar is not an easy raid and not every person will perform well in here due to the demands it puts on positioning and timing.
I agree with this

2. Raid schedule. Right now we raid twice as much as a full blown raiding guild with none of the success.
I would like to see this change somewhat as you have pointed out, there isn't much interest or so it seems

3. We have no diversity in our guild as far as classes go. We have priests, death knights, hunters, and of course paladins. Not only are we missing out on many raid buffs, ( I counted 11 missing buffs last I checked) but we are also all fighting over the same gear and token drops.
Blizzard said bring the player, not the class. Blizzard continues to prove they are full of shit. With the different nerf's they have done to classes, most feel they need to play something that will have some utility and offer what they can to the raid. Pure dps classes are not as desirable to people because they can heal, tank and dps all with one....imo

4. The laid back fun attitude that was the trademark of SWP in Burning Crusade and attracted myself and a few others to the guild has eroded in Wrath, we frequently have arguments amongst each other, people get their feelings hurt over a variety of things, and although this isn't a raiding guild that has become the primary focus for many people.
I blame boredom and repetition. Dailies, boring...Heroics, beyond boring and into the realm of "drooling zombified motions that do nothing but make you wish you were in bed dreaming you were doing something other than the same thing you have done every day for 4 years"

My solutions to these problems come in a variety of forms and suggestions.

1. Back in BC Raiding was a BI-Weekly affair, If we focus solely on Ulduar like we have been it needs to return to this. What sets us apart from raiding guilds is our rules and attitudes towards raiding. A raiding guild has a loot plan, a progression plan, and set nights for progression. We go to have fun and get gear in the process with no regard for who gets what. Or at least thats what we say. What we tell our fellow guild mates of our expectations and what we truly expect are two different things and this needs to change. If we indeed are going to focus on raiding then we need to clearly state what our expectations are and then clearly state our plan to progress. If this is a casual guild then we need to stick with casual raids which will probably not include any new content as it is getting progressively more technical.
Can't and won't argue these points, i agree

2.Instead of raids every night we need to schedule time for heroic runs. There is a large interest in alts in the guild everyone seems to have 2 or 3. If we have a progression raid scheduled 7 nights a week people will get burnt out on their toons and not want to play. I see this happening with several people. Lets let people relax and run what they want to run. Letting people work up alts is also a good way to solve our diversity problem. Level up what you want but if your doing it to help our raids/groups, talk to the raid leaders so we can balance things out and take care of some of the lack of diversity.
I would like to see vault on tuesday or wed night. Not just 10 man, but us hosting a 25 man as well. Tier 8 folks and it's easy as shit, even if you don't need it, others do and want it. Heroic nights i see happening after the patch as the badges will be useless that we get now, some still need em and if it's for their benefit then that's cool. Naxx 1 or 2 nights a week, and Uludar 1 or 2 nights a week and by my count thats 5 nights raiding, 1 niight heroics....thats a bloody hell of a casual raid schedule

3. We need guild PvP. Back in BC there were a number of us on arena teams, and even now theres a number of us who do pvp be in wintergrasp, or BG's. PvP is an excellent way to build our teamwork, meet new people, and it doesn't demand the large block of time that raiding does.
My thoughts on pvp are...well...quite one sided. PvP is fun for me due to the fact that i love putting myself through hell and I love to bitch. However for most everyone else I can see why they would not want to do it......
Pvp is the most broken thing in this game. The first best way to balance it is to take every single melee class; warriors, DK's, Paladin's, Rogues, enhance shaman and feral druids and nerf the living piss out of their damage by 1/3. Reduce pvp crit to 1/2 of whats on your character sheet for all classes and maybe, just maybe it will be close to being a viable portion of the game that can actually judge someones skill by, until then it's a broken piece of shit with no redeeming value other than killing time and hoping you learn something about the class you play

I am for pvp guild days or nights though


4. I would like to see group achievement grinding. There is a large number of us grinding achievements solo. we could be doing this as a group which would build stronger bonds between our members.
I'm game

5. I would like to see set raid groups. not two groups of alts but two separate groups. And we need to plan our gear out, what upgrades we need, and where they come from. Without a plan we cannot fulfill our expectations in a timely manner. Quite possibly not even know what we expect. If we are a bit more structured we wont need to raid 7 days a week.
With work schedules and whatnot, it may not be possible. i would like to see more people going to runs though

6. With the upcoming patch there will be a great incentive to farm heroics. This will be the fastest way to get decent gear in 3.2 along with naxx badge runs, which should take no longer than 3-4 hours for a full clear. I suggest setting up groups for this as well. there are several people with tanks and healers. Talk to each other and pair up with someone. Another incentive for badges is that you can also buy PvP gear with them.
First time I get a tell as soon as I log in about tanking or healing a fucking heroic, Im throwing that person on ignore and logging out

After i have had time to check my mail, check the calendar, check WG time and think about what i would like to do that day i would be more than happy to entertain the idea of helping someone in a heroic


Well thats a large post and i'll cut it short and see what kind of responses I get. I look forward to working with all of you to make SWP the great guild it can be.

Wasn't trying to hack apart your post or anything, just thought it would be easier to address each point as they are, hehe. I can agree with most of what your saying and i think we need to make some changes to the way we do certain things. By the same token it may not be burnout, and may just be the start of summer or changed work schedules or whatever. We are a casual guild still and hinestly, nobody should feel obligated to go on a raid unless they signed up for it.

Darn snap, that post was hard for us old folks (especially Xyon) to read that small print and coloring with out highlighting it

[taallonn]

Jul 8, 2009 15:22:57 GMT -5 jenner said:

Jun 27, 2009 19:03:53 GMT -5 taallonn said:

Wasn't trying to hack apart your post or anything, just thought it would be easier to address each point as they are, hehe. I can agree with most of what your saying and i think we need to make some changes to the way we do certain things. By the same token it may not be burnout, and may just be the start of summer or changed work schedules or whatever. We are a casual guild still and hinestly, nobody should feel obligated to go on a raid unless they signed up for it.

Darn snap, that post was hard for us old folks (especially Xyon) to read that small print and coloring with out highlighting it

Sorry I'll do better next time