Officer meeting notes

[taallonn]

As some of you know we had an officer meeting yesterday to talk about some issues guildies had come to us about, and talk about other things. Some of this will be talked about in the guild meeting, but i wanted to share some of the other items with you.

Class Leader appointments:
We had 2 classes not fairly represented due to the original class leaders not playing the game anymore and one that was being handled by 2 other class leaders that were also class leaders of another class, so we now have 3 new class leaders.

Congratulations to Lavar, the new Hunter class leader, Shamsian, the new Shaman class leader, and Necrophoblic, the new Death Knight class leader. Congrats guys, you deserve it

Now to some of the other highlights

Raiding issues:

Gear Check for progression raids: On our progression raids such as the arena and uludar we are going to require players to have the right gear for it, and also know their classes role in raiding. The class leaders and raid leaders will determine if you can go more or less. However this doesn't mean that you will never go. It means that with some work, and better gear it will be an honor to have you raiding the content as well. So don't get discouraged if you are asked to wait til you have better gear before being invited to the raid.

Wipe Limits: We all hate wiping, but we like shinies and you can't have one without the other. But were going to limit how many attempts we do on bosses to prevent frustrations and save a little gold.

On farm bosses such as flame leviathoin, naxx, OS, VoA, deconstructor, ect...we ar putting a 3 wipe limit. If we dont down a boss in 3 attempts, we move on and don't waste time that night on that boss. On progression bosses such as Freya and the unreleased arena bosses we are putting a 6 wipe limit on those, with a small exception. If the raid determines that it is in the best interest to contnue on a progression boss then a vote will eb called for and majority will win.

Consumables on raids: This is a personal choice for you to bring or not to bring. But don't ask if anyone has any, and don't expect to get past the the progression bosses if your not at your optimal stats. By now you should know you should be carrying it if able to but it is not a requirement to have the flaks and all.

Thats not everything discussed but thats a good portion, the rest will be touched on at the Guid meeting. Again I wanted to say grats to Lavar, Necro, and Shammy !!!!

[deli]

I've voiced it before, but I'll reiterate, I very much disagree that using flasks, pots, foods, etc. is a personal choice on runs. If you aren't using EVERY resource available to you, you are not only jeopardizing yourself on a run, but you are jeopardizing everyone else. Deli carries a couple of every flask and fish feasts. PLEASE ask if you need! Only thing I ask is that you help reimburse me mats if you can. If you can't, that's ok too.

[xyon]

Yeah I try to usualy have 5-10 mana pots on me at all times. It's common sences really.

But there have been rare occasions where I have forgoten to bring some

[Neve]

If it's a run we're going on just for the heck of it, I can understand not needing pots/flasks. I usually use elixirs instead of flasks... that IS a personal choice. But when on a progression run especially, people really do need to use something. Might be the difference between getting past a boss or not. Makes sense, really... and once we get the bank stocked with flasks and pots and elixirs, no one will have an excuse.

[swed]

The majority of the damage we do is mitigated by the target. lets just say for argument that 90% is mitigated by a Boss 4 levels above you. that means that only 10% is actually having an effect on that boss(mob etc) If you increase your dps by 1% with flask buffs whatever, you are NOT doing 1% more damage. You are doing 10% more damage. That is why a toon with marginally better gear does WAY more damage. The game is designed so that minor increases that may not look like much are actually huge differences that make the difference in succeeding or not. Having consumables is very important and IMO should be a consideration as far as who gets to go or not..... And how fair is it to those who consistently bring what they need when others don't?

[laileb]

requiring flasks in a casual raid is much like requiring people to spec a certain way. while it makes sense to do both remember this is a casual guild and people are free to do as they wish

[Neve]

Laileb, yes and no... if we required guildies to buy their own flasks then yah I can see that point... but we're giving them the flasks (from guild bank)

[swed]

Asking someone to be prepared is nothing like asking them to respec.

[xyon]

Yeh the guild bank usaly has all the potions needed. We'll help as much as we can. The real problem is people going on a raid un prepared. Wiping on a farm boss because a hunter forgot to get ammo.

That's al I am personaly asking. Come prepared. GEt your ammo and if you don't want to buy the potions then look for them in the guild bank. That's all.

I will personaly never ask anyone to respec for a raid and I will quit the guild if I am ever asked to respec for a raid. If a person respec out of their own free will then that's different ;D

[Neve]

Dae, I forgot to tell you... you have to respec for Friday's run. *nod*

*LOL* Just kidding.

It's really not too much to ask simply to be prepared for a run if you knew ahead of time you were probably going.... Armor repaired, elixirs or flasks and pots on hand, ammo, etc. Now, I CAN understand not being prepared if you hop online and are suddenly kidnapped to run instances.... *whistles at two guys in general*

[laileb]

Just to illustrate my point, I'm going to use mage specs as an example. Lets take an arcane mage vs. a fire mage. An arcane mage might squeeze out marginally higher personal dps on short fights given the mage has the opportunity to finish out a full spell rotation, but a fire mage is going to give a 5% crit bonus to the raid through talents and will probably have higher personal damage on boss fights as well due to not having to manage the damage vs. mana aspect of an arcane mage. The 5% crit bonus would be much more beneficial than a flask in the case of any caster yet being fire isn't asked of anyone. In the case of shamans, being enhancement in a melee heavy group would provide much more benefit to raid dps than a flask and the same for elemental in a caster heavy group.
Judging from some of the posts It would appear as though people assume my position is that we shouldn't have to use flasks. That couldn't be farther from the truth. For the past year or 2 I have been an advocate of making people spec for what the raid needs and for using food/pots/elixirs as is evident from me abandoning my main to level a tank and respeccing other toons as needed. The point of my post was I just don't see the point in doing anything "Half-assed" If we are going to require flasks and what not to improve our chances we also need to ensure all of our available buffs/proc effects are also being utilized. This would also imply having a wider variety of classes in a raid also.

[laileb]

I also thought i would throw in that many of our top dpsers rarely use flasks and still are on top and that has much more to do with spec and knowing your class than anything else. I do support use of flasks but I don't support using it as a criteria for who gets into raids. While this is a casual guild a person who decides they want to raid needs to be prepared in many more ways than just bringing flasks and pots.
1. proper spec
2. using the proper rotation for your spec
3. Knowing when to use AoE vs. single target
4.Watching boss fights, reading forums, and doing research

Raid leaders shouldn't have to explain the fight every time we do it. Even if you are new to the fight you can still have an idea of whats going on. While you never truly know what to expect until you actually do it, watching the video really improves our chances.

When we wipe on bosses it is almost always due to poor positioning. So while the flasks and what not are by far the easiest part of this to remedy wiping in raids is a symptom of a fundamental flaw in how this is being appraoched. To succeed ad the difficult raids we need to really up our game and every person needs to do thier part in learning not only the encounters but each of the classes in the raid as well.

But hey I deleted my 80s so I really don't have any business telling you guys how to raid, just sharing my opinion.

[deli]

Ok, if we're going to pick it all apart into itsy bitsy pieces and slam on semantics............

Bottom line is this........ no, we're not a "raiding" guild. But we DO raid. And all I'm asking is that people come prepared if they possibly can. I realize we're casual but doesn't mean we have to be sloppy. Deli carries a lot of extra things with her on every raid just in case someone may need something. I don't intend to become a personal supplier for every single person because they're too lazy to go about getting things on their own, but neither do I intend to sit by and see people do things half-assed (and yes, that does include knowing your toon, your class, your spec, your rotation, etc etc ad nauseum) and end up wiping the raid repeatedly when a little preparation just MIGHT save everyone the hassles and stresses. SOOOO, long story short..............please utilize your resources. All of them.
Can't afford something? Ask, for chrissakes!

[swed]

So... seems to me that we all agree. More prep= more success....
Casual guild= do as you wish.....
What most wish is to be successful.....
so.... get prepared, know the fights, know your class, ensure you are specced correctly, have fun.